Proposal on funds for the Old Spotted Dog Ground

A proposal for the members' meeting on Thursday 20th February 2020

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Copwatcher
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Joined: 25 Sep 2018, 20:59

Re: Proposal on funds for the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Post by Copwatcher »

Bev G wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 19:35 The ground is central to CCFC and a worthwhile investment. However, have we explored all opportunities to secure funding from grants and bids? I know I did a funding search about 12 months ago. Happy to do a search for Capital again just in case we can access funding externally and retain some of our reserves.
It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation: we can't apply for grants until we have signed the lease and have security of tenure. There is, however, a lot of work going on to prepare for submitting applications the moment we are ready: most importantly, to the Football Foundation. Annu from the new Old Spotted Dog Ground Trust board is leading on this.
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Bingo Little
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Re: Proposal on funds for the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Post by Bingo Little »

I support this allocation of funds - having read through the thread I cannot see there is really much alternative. Getting back to the OSD has always been the main priority for CCFC.

saltair
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Joined: 08 Feb 2020, 09:50

Re: Proposal on funds for the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Post by saltair »

In full support to allocate the funds and in view we should be self sustainable and not rely on Heineken or grants from elsewhere. If they come - great - but we should not count on it in my opinion.
My questions are:
- is 15-35k enough to get the ground and facilities up to the standard for both, teams and supporters and will we have a plan in place if costs are higher than projected?
- it's already Feb, what will happen if we are not ready for the beginning of the season? Do we commit to MDC for another full year and end up paying double?
Thank you.
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dowdinsk
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Re: Proposal on funds for the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Post by dowdinsk »

saltair wrote: 09 Feb 2020, 09:20 In full support to allocate the funds and in view we should be self sustainable and not rely on Heineken or grants from elsewhere. If they come - great - but we should not count on it in my opinion.
My questions are:
- is 15-35k enough to get the ground and facilities up to the standard for both, teams and supporters and will we have a plan in place if costs are higher than projected?
- it's already Feb, what will happen if we are not ready for the beginning of the season? Do we commit to MDC for another full year and end up paying double?
Thank you.
Changing rooms alone, based on a portable buildings solution could cost upwards of £80K. We'd be reliant on FSIF (Football Foundation) and other funding to achieve this, and it's looking highly unlikely that funding would be in place in time for the start of the 2020-21 season.

Humber'Ulltra
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Joined: 08 Feb 2020, 19:25

Re: Proposal on funds for the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Post by Humber'Ulltra »

I have read through the thread so far and noted the comments and imo quite valid points and the questions raised.

I too have faith in the finance committee in this proposal, aware that a lot of thought and fact-finding has gone into this proposal and that the interests of the club and community are paramount.

I therefore support this proposal by the Finance Committee.
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jackgg
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Re: Proposal on funds for the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Post by jackgg »

Great to see this being discussed like this - thanks to finance for opening it up.

A couple of questions:

What does ‘allocation of funds’ mean? Is the proposal a request from OSDT for a donation/loan from CCFC? If so, is there anything the Trust can offer the club in return (if not repayment), e.g. a period of playing at the ground rent free (or reduced)? I understand the going rate for clubs is about £10k a season so could be a real burden off the club for a few years and allow that money to be spent elsewhere, e.g. development.

If it’s a loan, have the Trust considered other lenders? I suppose at worst it could be seen as a conflict of interest that the leaseholder is loaning money from a prospective tenant?

Would another year playing at Wadham Lodge give OSDT the time needed to negotiate a better deal with Heineken? If it’s a case of us spending £10k at Wadham Lodge then that might make more financial sense (and help to apply pressure on Heineken, as has been mentioned above) - if the Trust thinks that the extra year would give them time to negotiate with Heineken & get the ground ready.
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dowdinsk
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Re: Proposal on funds for the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Post by dowdinsk »

jackgg wrote: 12 Feb 2020, 08:28 Great to see this being discussed like this - thanks to finance for opening it up.

A couple of questions:

What does ‘allocation of funds’ mean? Is the proposal a request from OSDT for a donation/loan from CCFC? If so, is there anything the Trust can offer the club in return (if not repayment), e.g. a period of playing at the ground rent free (or reduced)? I understand the going rate for clubs is about £10k a season so could be a real burden off the club for a few years and allow that money to be spent elsewhere, e.g. development.

If it’s a loan, have the Trust considered other lenders? I suppose at worst it could be seen as a conflict of interest that the leaseholder is loaning money from a prospective tenant?

Would another year playing at Wadham Lodge give OSDT the time needed to negotiate a better deal with Heineken? If it’s a case of us spending £10k at Wadham Lodge then that might make more financial sense (and help to apply pressure on Heineken, as has been mentioned above) - if the Trust thinks that the extra year would give them time to negotiate with Heineken & get the ground ready.
It isn't a loan, it's a transfer of funds allowing the OSDGT to start up operations managing the OSDG from the moment negotiations are concluded, securing the ground with new locks on the gates, paying insurances and signing up for electricity, water and other utilities through to getting the clubhouse up and running and ultimately - with new changing rooms, a stadium safety licence, and meeting FA ground grading - fulfilling CCFC's goal of getting competitive football sans McBean back to the OSD.

EarlhamTon
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Joined: 07 Feb 2020, 20:00

Re: Proposal on funds for the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Post by EarlhamTon »

I'm definitely behind going ahead with as it feels the only real option. Thank you for the really clear communication and detail on the pros and cons - which actually helps me feeling confident the process, while complicated, will be in good hands.

My question is about the changing rooms. This seems like one of the biggest costs and I wondered if a separate agreement might be reached with the warehouse owners of the existing ones to avoid this for the time being? Or is is the case that they are not up to standard?

Humber'Ulltra
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Joined: 08 Feb 2020, 19:25

Re: Proposal on funds for the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Post by Humber'Ulltra »

Loving the openness of this thread.
Just a couple of things which doesn't change my support for the proposal -
Star Pubs and Bars are getting no revenue from the OSD at present and I assume are paying for security whilst it is vacant. Depending on the timescale to get the OSD up to the required standard and therefore generating income for the club, the muted payment holiday should be a minimum of the projected timescale.
Will Match Day Centres accept a short-term lease for next season if the works at the OSD overrun? Is this even feasible?
Do we have time on our side for negotiations re financial contributions from Star Pubs and Bars, or will they lease to the ones who will cost them the least?

As in my previous post, I have every confidence in the finance committee and no doubt the above has already been discussed.
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dowdinsk
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Re: Proposal on funds for the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Post by dowdinsk »

EarlhamTon wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 20:17 I'm definitely behind going ahead with as it feels the only real option. Thank you for the really clear communication and detail on the pros and cons - which actually helps me feeling confident the process, while complicated, will be in good hands.

My question is about the changing rooms. This seems like one of the biggest costs and I wondered if a separate agreement might be reached with the warehouse owners of the existing ones to avoid this for the time being? Or is is the case that they are not up to standard?
The warehouse is in the hands of the liquidator while at the same time sub judice awaiting a date for a High Court hearing brought against McBean by Clapton FC life members and some of the trustees of Newham Community Leisure Trust. It would also appear that the liquidator or someone else is deriving income from a car repair business operating there unlawfully in contravention of a Planning Enforcement Notice. You can read some of the background here https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/cha ... neken.html

As well as our return to the OSD ground there is also a new planning application from a local developer to restore the Old Spotted Dog pub next door, so both councillors and the community are taking some considerable interest in this little corner of Forest Gate right now. As a community football club it could be argued doing any deal with the liquidator under these circumstances might fly in the face of our mission statement and long-term interest.
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